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Brian W

Motion Detectors

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So I recently setup one of the newer smartthings motion sensors by the front door of my home to trigger the patio light on or off to both save electricity but more so to stop the nighttime swarm of bugs around the patio light that inevitably make their way in to my house.  I played around with the positioning of the sensor to make sure I wasn't getting triggers from cars driving by on the street, and we seemed to be good during testing.  But now that it is stuck in place I have found that it still sees motion from the street if a vehicle is driving fast or if it is a large vehicle (trash truck) driving slowly.  Now I can see how vehicle size could impact motion sensing, but can anyone explain of the speed of a vehicle is impacting it?

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You have heard I'm sure that size does matter??? Did I say that out loud? 😁 Well speed matters as well both in visual detection and motion detection. The faster something is moving the more likely it is to be detected. Motion detection for use outside where trees, cars, leaves, ect. can set off a motion detector doesn't work very well. That's why camera company's are working hard to get person detection working correctly.

Edited by Larry Underwood
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@Larry Underwood it's funny the reason that is bothering me is a wrote a script to email me whenever motion is detected on that sensor between our typical bedtime and our typical wake time.  The reason behind it is I wonder how frequently someone takes a stab at trying to enter our cars in the driveway.  I know we have had neighbors who have had their change stolen or other bags from inside their cars grabbed, but we have never had it happen to us (probably because we actually lock our cars unlike others).  my next step in this process of the script was to alter the location of my Wyze cam so that it is focused on the cars.  Again this was really just me playing around with WebCore as I tinker my way in to knowledge.

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Yes i use a WYZE cam that points at my driveway and have set it so it alerts me only when it see's a person. It is under my house's eve but still have it in a case I bought on amazon. Been there for over a year now and still working fine. In the past it did not work very well as WYZE is still perfecting there person detection but has been getting better and better. I use webcore along with a android app called tasker to give me a alert via Alexa and visual notification on my action tiles. You can see how i did it here.

 

Let me know how it goes with the motion detection.

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I've been sitting here now for a bit and I'm trying to figure out why this would happen to you....I mean it's supposed to be 15 feet away is the range and I think you're talking about a lot further.  I started to wonder about reflections, and I do feel like the speed of the subject is really relevant as well.  I've noted this in my own use of most motion sensors.

I actually sent SmartThings a support request to tell me about the sensors because I feel like it's just a true motion/light sensor and not a PIR sensor.  I can't believe I don't know this already as I use them all around my home...but...there it is.  I'm 99% sure it's not PIR...but want to be 100% before I tell ya.

This is part of why their upcoming Vision product is so important to them.  Like @Larry Underwood said, person detection is becoming key as people find gaps in motion sensors, but the Vision likely won't be something you want to stick outdoors.  Anyways, I'll let you know what they tell me...they have been awfully cryptic about this in their documentation for some reason...but maybe a PIR like the Wyze Sense makes more sense in the end.  Let's see!

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@Brian W Cars engines emit a lot of heat, the faster a car goes the more heat it emits, also larger trucks have bigger engines so more heat there too. Also radiator's rapidly change temperature one of the main reason's for false alarm's.

If your interested in how a PIR sensor works here's a good site to check out

https://learn.adafruit.com/pir-passive-infrared-proximity-motion-sensor/how-pirs-work

@AYL_Brian Took me a while going through a few white papers on the model number but found this info.

Samsung SmartThings Motion Sensor

 

Detect movement and activity to trigger smart lights or receive an alert when you're not around.  The SmartThings Motion Sensor works with your SmartThings hub to allow your home to react to your presence or to detect visitors or unwanted guests. 

When motion is detected by the motion detector, you can receive an alert or message on your phone, trigger an event like turning on a light or buzzer, or send a message to a property manager or neighbor.

Use the motion sensor to automatically turn on lights when you enter a room, or turn them off to save money and energy when no-one's around.

The motion sensor mounts quickly and easily with the included mounting bracket, utilizing a magnetic ball mount.

GP-U999SJVLBAA Samsung SmartThings Motion Sensor Specifications:

  • PIR motion sensor
  • works with SmartThings hub
  • Zigbee 3.0 device
  • Dimensions: 2.23" x 1.98 x 2.19"
  • CR2 battery (included)
  • Operating temperature 32-104 F
Edited by Larry Underwood
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@AYL_Brian and @Larry Underwood thank you guys for all of the info. Brian from my motion sensor to the street is right around 30 feet which is why I was surprised I was having this issue. Another oddity is that the motion sensor seems to detect motion at that street distance more commonly during the daytime vs. nighttime. And I don’t mean more occurrences, I mean more so that a car in the daytime is more likely to trip the sensor than a car at night will. Now there are a bunch of variables that may play in to that from temperature to possibly people drive slower in the evening, but nonetheless I thought sharing that may be helpful to others. 

One other thing of potential value in thinking about this is my house is approximately 10 feet above street level. The sensor is mounted to a vertical wall, and the sensor is angled downward as much as the magnetic mount will allow. I’m not in dire need of trouble shooting at this point, I am sharing this info more in hopes it can be helpful to others. Larry and Brian you guys continue to rock. Thanks again. 

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Hi guys, I'm new to the forum and new to automation.

I'm planning on setting up a smart lightning system in my house and I'm doing a lot of research, and it lead me here! 😄

I have a question regarding sensors. I see a lot of different "motion" sensors, but what about presence?

What if you want to put a sensor in your living room, so the lights would remain on when you are there, but maybe you are not moving... just sitting at the computer, or at the couch watching TV. These motion sensor would not detect any movement so the lights will turn off. That's not what I'm looking for.

Are there any motion + presence sensors? That would turn the lights on as soon as you enter the room, keep them on while you are there (maybe lying watching a film) and automatically turn lights off when you leave the room?

I'm learning a lot about all the products in the market for automation, by watching your videos on YouTube and reading this forum!

Thanks for all the help guys.

Greetings from Argentina!

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@PeL4 welcome to the forum.  By all means keep asking this group questions.  There is a ton of knowledge here (very little from me, but tons from others).  One thing you may want to look in to regarding presence sensing is a company called Walabot / Vayar.  They have been working on these kind of products, but I am not sure if they are truly capable of handling your request.  Check them out and see if they have something that might fit your needs https://vayyar.com/smart-home

 

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So the motion sensors are often PIR - so they're looking at heat as much as they are movement.  It still requires movement, but often times small movements are enough for many of the PIRs.  This is also the reason for new and upcoming sensors like the SmartThings Vision.  It's intended to do lots of the work of the cameras and their "person detection" or as you put it occupancy sensors.

The fact is, it's imperfect now but it's getting there!

Sometimes you have to look for other ways to sense occupancy!

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1 hour ago, AYL_Brian said:

The fact is, it's imperfect now but it's getting there!

Sometimes you have to look for other ways to sense occupancy!

@AYL_Brian is right.  Finding alternative concepts to detecting occupancy is key.  I know people have used pressure sensitive mats under seat cushions, motion sensors, and even NFC stickers on a table that you place your phone on top of.  If you can add rules thru smart things or webcore along with these tools you can more specifically customize the responses you are looking for.  Have fun playing around with some of these ideas and who knows what else you might develop!

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What are the options available now for motion + light sensor?

A motion sensor without light sensing means the light will turn on if I walk by during day... not necessary.

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Yeah I really like the direction RoomMe is heading.  They now have Galaxy Watch integration so they know who's in the room based on their sensor that looks just like a smoke/CO detector.  Very interesting stuff.

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24 minutes ago, AYL_Brian said:

Yeah I really like the direction RoomMe is heading.  They now have Galaxy Watch integration so they know who's in the room based on their sensor that looks just like a smoke/CO detector.  Very interesting stuff.

Ooooooh, do you know if that's only compatible with the latest Samsung smartwatches of if it extends to older variants?

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On 1/13/2020 at 12:05 PM, Gaztyke said:

Ooooooh, do you know if that's only compatible with the latest Samsung smartwatches of if it extends to older variants?

I don't actually.  Let's ask Peter on Twitter!

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That was quick: Any Tizen 4.0 watch should be compatible, exact watch models will be announced one the version is officially released.

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16 hours ago, AYL_Brian said:

That was quick: Any Tizen 4.0 watch should be compatible, exact watch models will be announced one the version is officially released.

Get in! My Gear S3 Frontier is on Tizen 4.0.0.4 so I'll be able to get in on the action 👊

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11 hours ago, Gaztyke said:

Get in! My Gear S3 Frontier is on Tizen 4.0.0.4 so I'll be able to get in on the action 👊

I have the galaxy watch so ditto

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